>Read on the web at http://community.scriptmeridian.org/16770
>----------------------------------
>
>> $899/year doesn't buy much these days.
>
>Hmmm ....
>
>I imagine that UserLand's Frontier cash flow is
>fairly low these days.
>
>And, at $900/year, they're not gonna get a lot of new
>buyers.

Stanley,
that is another discussion - so I changed the subject line.


I don't know what the revenue of Frontier is for UserLand - and I
don't think I am in the position to speculate on that - neither am I
interested in figures. I suspect if Frontier does not take off in the
market, than it is because of the personal decision of Dave Winer not
wanting to be a manager of "yet another app vendor" but rather trying
to sell his service into contracts that make real money. A $900/year
price could be regarded as "keeping the app cooking, but limiting the
customer base to a size that can be handled".

But before we start another useless discussion about UserLands
pricing policy, I want to present my view as a 5-years Frontier user
(and not Frontier developer!). The question here in this discussion
group would be: What can we offer that would help to address some of
the points I raise below?


So:

I don't think ISPs don't buy into Frontier because of the price. The
problem is, that an ISP doesn't really know what you get for the
money - but that is a very common problem for ISP trying to figure
out which app they should use as a basis for their own business.

I have heard people reporting criticial issues to Userland that
didn't get fixed ASAP. That is not Userland specific - many vendors
sell their app - and not the service required to keep it running. But
I never heard any vendor being successful with this strategy.

So if I would be an ISP that needs to pay his own rent from income
that is based on a single application, I think I would only buy into
rock-solid and worldwide-tested things - potentially open source, so
I could fix things if worst case scenarios get real.

If there is rumor that the vendor is not able to actually address
kernel issues, that this would be the end of the deal. I don't think
the price matters that much here, because if my income is so low,
that I can't afford $900/year for a core application, I'd rather stop
trying to make a buck anyway!

I am personally not an ISP that needs to make money with Frontier -
so I can only look theoretically at the problem from this angle (and
I think many here don't make money with Frontier either). But we all
could help UserLand by trying to be a "healthy community". I suppose
the accumulated brain power and developer force of this community is
quite high.


Core questions:

For what I know, there are a number of core questions for ISPs, that
could be addressed with Frontier, if it would be developed further.


1. Looking at the application ISPs ask for:

a) stability
b) scalability (multiple instances, privilege system to
manage multiple development teams)
c) administrative power and quality management features
d) response time for critical issues
e) third-party apps
f) total cost of ownership
g) healthy cummunity
h) interoperability


2. Looking at the business ISPs ask:

a) What market is there to sell knowledge about that CMS to?
b) What business models and service providing would work?
c) Can I get experienced staff for running that business?


3. Things that make potential Frontier customers suspicious are

a) complaints in the community about service
b) case studies based on very old releases or pointing to rotted links
(see: http://frontier.userland.com/stories/storyReader$1191)
c) a marketing not addressing the above questions
d) examples of succesful businesses using Frontier


Interestingly the UserLand website does not talk clearly about most
of these things in 1. and 2. and is also getting not-so-good marks in
area 3.

As an ISP I would conclude that UserLand does not really try to be in
the ISP market! (well, I said I am not an ISP, just guessing here)

Now my questions:
What can we - as a community - offer here?
Why should we want ISPs buying into Frontier at all?


Regards,
Oliver


--

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